B-Series Boys - Ep.114

B Series engines started a wave of tuners and enthusiasts that changed the trajectory the culture as a whole. Listen along as we take a dive into the B series and the effect it had on the world of Japanese tuner cars. Have you had a B series? What did it rev to? Did you go NA or boosted? Let us know in the DMs!


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Transcript

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Hey, and welcome back to the next episode of the right hand drive guys podcast the podcast for guys who like right hand drives I'm Bobby. This is Aaron. Yeah, you know, and we are back again Episode 113. Yeah, dude. That's a good number. It is a good number and So we were talking and we're like, you know, of course, we've had a lot of guests loved it It's been great our J last week was sweet definitely mind-blowing. Yeah But we're like all right. Let's get back to a few knowledge episodes and you know these episodes Don't mean we have all the knowledge No, it just simply means that we are putting knowledge out there which we have generally sourced from credible sources. Yeah, so You know, what do we want to do the knowledge about like what where have we not touched on you know It's kind of like one of those things we we start getting a little niece on heavy And we're you know, obviously currently two niece on guys even though I do also I love Honda, but It's easy to do because we can bounce off each other So we're like we need to get back to like a Honda episode. We did the VTech episode Yeah, and that was cool that worked out good it got good feedback So we're like all right Well, like if not VTech then what well like let's get back to where it all started The B series the B series Absolutely and you know I guarantee Plenty of guys listening to this that were born before 1995 for sure Have had a B series their buddy had a B series. Yeah, something right? Yeah, you know even yeah even an L as VTech anything where we are another did you you've probably been around a B series right? And even knew it or not and so Whether you even knew it or not you know And so it's kind of like one of those things like okay, you know, we recognize that this motor kind of created a whole Like change in the way Honda was going and then of course added all the tunability and you know All of the aftermarket upgrades it it really started Something that changed the culture so to speak the B series is pretty prominent Yeah, absolutely. I mean it was the it was the bigger of the two like popular motors back then like Compared to the D series the D series was like Honda single cam. Yep. You know they had VTech and non obviously and the B series was like that But with two cams dude the D O H C. Yeah, yeah, yeah the dog the dog yeah Everybody's heard somebody say that and usually it's the DSM guys to say that for some reason when they're talking about The early 4G63s they'll talk about the dog talking on yeah But yeah right now you're right the D series was the economy Yeah version right and of course they put VTech in some of it to make you feel a little sporty in those lower models But the B series was for sure like the shining star. Yeah, and I think it actually well The good B series all started with the accurate Integra right like the newer the B18 that's what came in the The DA integrus Well the B16 a right came in the DA Integra yeah, and then the B8 well that was only on the excess eyes I believe right? Yeah Yes, absolutely right and then so what you're saying is the B18 Came in right yes in the states at least yeah the DA RS and LS right came with a B16 Err sorry B18 a1 right, but that's not VTech. So that's why I wouldn't know nothing about it You know I definitely like I've had you know B18's B16s right and Even a B20 at one point which I'll get into later, but I and and I had like a Single overhack like a single cam slam, you know like the the turbo D series, you know So but the non VTech B series I never necessarily Got into right, you know because I just wasn't that deep to where I was trying to use this block with this head and you know Yeah, this sweet motor out of a dog, you know, so yeah But yeah, you're right. They they did both pretty much both debut and in Integrate right which was I mean in the states Acre was like the The higher line I guess you could say so that would come with the The dual cam B series whereas the Honda equivalents, you know the civics and all that would come with the D which Yeah, I mean The the lower ends always came with that and so to that point Pretty much the first VTech engine it was the first VTech it's the first generation B16A These these were what really set everything off right, you know Starting to come in the E F8 and E F9s, you know the Civic and CRX. Yeah that really started to change things You know because now we have that top end power and like you know an an actual true Power band as opposed to the non VTech in yeah, single cam and they were coming in cars that were More for sport not just economy driving right as well like the The CRX like that was kind of a rip we're back in the day. Oh, it was the FS IR like yeah Those are definitely some rippers. Yeah, and I mean to come in these Little platforms been in all of a sudden have this VTech dual overhead cam. Yeah, no, I'm sure these guys were like oh wow We better pick these up, but I mean at 158 horsepower Nothing crazy right especially by today's standards. That's like a Super small car like that's like I think he has come with more than that. Yeah, so especially with technology so the thing about this though is it had an 8200 RPM rev limiter yeah, and but VTech kicks in at 5500 nice So, you know, you're getting close to 3000 RPM if you're tacking it all the way out of VTech and so imagine the guy the first time he hits VTech back in 1989 Starts making a bunch of noise. Yeah, he has a little faster And of course, you know like most of the B16s they either came with an S1 J1 or YS1 which is the LSD transmission so They all mostly shared shared that And then of course, there's the second generation B16A which they made little improvements on but for the most part the same you know and then of course they come out with the B16 B and so that that was kind of like the The next step right especially with the B series the the B16 B was like the first true performance B series Yeah, would that come in the civic type or right starting with the UK's? Yeah, yeah, so And and that's like the first the first B series I had was a B16 B And you know a little different right like kind of the same a little different, you know The original coming with 158 this now puts down 185. Yeah, decent. So I mean For the same displacement they figured out how to squeeze almost 30 more of us by or out of it. I mean that's pretty decent and so But with this car you're at a 9,000 rpm Rev limiter yeah like you're starting to get into those high numbers and your VTech is engaging at 6100 So like a later VTech engagement but a longer span so And these came with a helical LSD Which you know a little more power a little better LSD make sense But yeah, I mean and of course multiple variations of the B16 it's kind of crazy when you look at it I think there's 12 But then they come out, you know, but then they also come out with a B17 Yeah, that was always the odd one. Yeah, for sure you hardly heard of it. Yeah, that came in the the DA Integrity SRs in the states and yeah Yeah, it was weird. It's like I don't know. It's just like that middle child, I guess never got the attention it like Yeah, it was kind of rare. I don't think there was that many of those comparatively Yeah, and I because you really never saw him and they were only made for two years right like which is crazy I think that they had this engine they developed this engine they use it for two years. Yeah, and that's it and so This thing would have the VTech engaging at 5750 only had 160 horsepower like really nothing crazy Yeah, you know what I mean and and are were those specific to the US market like Repand didn't get those today correct. Yeah, which is kind of weird to us. Well, they're like dude keep that 1.7 Later thing over there. We do even numbers over here, dude. Yeah, exactly So like you mentioned earlier though when when coming up into the B18 the B18 a is You know that a core or no, sorry, you didn't say this one, but the original B18 a came in D6 to 89 chords, but these had no VTech right they were super basic It's more like it was more like a B20 right which it was the CRV motors And people still try to do stuff with the B20's which I'll get into and like you know get the 2.0 with the and it really never popped off They'd always just blow up So yeah, I mean again with the B18's there's Plenty of non VTech's right. I mean there's always that scale of base to performance and so sorting through them all is a bit of a challenge because You know for example the B18 B1 right this one was the dual overhead cam non VTech Yeah, right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So those came in the 94 to 0101 in Tigras and This is what they would do the LSV tech with yeah, they would use the bottom end of this and then what a top end of a B16 Or so no, no, no, they would you they'd use the type our head for the LSV tech. Yeah, yeah, right They would use that bottom end and they would use either head yeah Either the GSR head or the the type R B16 just depending on how how your budget was because Yeah, I was a little bit more fire remember back in the day Yeah, which makes sense and So yeah people would do what they could to get VTech even on like blocks or motors that Didn't even come with it. Yeah, and I mean like yeah, it sounds like a cool thing because all you have to do is swap the head and then you got to get an ECU and Change a little bit of the wiring and you got to run an oil line for the VTech so annoyed and it was just kind of a Yeah, like a jenky kind of right. It was always a backyard type thing So I feel like that's why they kind of got a bad rap and they were always blowing up because It was kind of the getaway to go about things and people weren't building nice LS V techs I feel I mean there was obviously a few yeah, I'm sure they're out there, you know But for the most part it was people Frankenstein and throwing stuff together and kind of half-ass in it and then Wonder why didn't last or yeah for sure back in the day that was a big thing and I'm sure people still do some little things like this but You know amount of motors out there is diminished. Yeah, absolutely. It's just not quite as easy to be you know messing around with these type of things Yeah, I mean I remember going to the junkyards and just seeing B series everywhere Just regular LS Dude even a few GSRs in back in the day come across one of those at a pull apart Yeah, it's not gonna last long do they have the homies over there Yanking it out Put it in a wheelbarrow and it's gone So when we're talking about B18 of course the infamous B18 C the Integritype arm motor is Like you know that pinnacle right that's the one you really wanted and that's what you were trying to replicate with an LSV tech or anything else right right so these things were in 95 to 2000 DC 2 and DBA and take your types are in Japan and take your type ours in Japan with a 200 horsepower 197 whatever Rating they really bumped it up especially over that B16 and so This thing will red line out at 8900 which a little less than the B16 but definitely with a bigger stroke Yeah, but still like that's plenty high yeah and It doesn't tell me I'm not sure when that be taking gauges, but I'd assume around 2000 like the other you know something like that Yeah, I mean and then of course there was the straight-up JDM B18 C which that's what a lot of guys could get yeah, right it was like the you know type ours little brother so to speak In you know a little less of a red line a little a little different V-tech engagement 4400 RPM on that one yeah, so You know it's probably still fun and definitely worth grabbing right yeah, but not quite the level of the B18 C In the type R right right so yeah, I mean those are like the of course there's There's a bunch more B18. Yeah, yeah, usually the USDM ones we got a few different versions of but The JDM is pretty much just the B18 C in the USDM's we had B18 C1 2 3 5 was the USDM type R. Yeah, UK DM was C6. Yeah, I mean and pretty similar right, you know These B18s just little small variances whether it was due to emissions or whatever the country of Import you know required You know the C7 was the New Zealand type R I've heard that one. I know it's just interesting and and then you know to round out the B series. There's the B20 B and B20 B4 and so these are the CRV Orthea step wagons. Yeah, you know all that type of thing. It's a non V-tech 2.0 liter You know coming with 140 horsepower like nothing major, you know Red lining out at 6500 so yeah, it's it's a low compression engine right it doesn't even have a nox sensor It's just it's that base right right but guys would still try to take those blocks and do because it was a 2 liter Technically it has more boring stroke, so right yeah, I do the same thing with the LSV text dude They would take the B20 bottom ends out of the CRVs or you know whatever they could find in the junkyard throw a V-tech head on it gets the same thing same processes the LS V-tech pretty much and Yeah, a lot of them would blow up Yeah, of course because you know whether they didn't have the compression or whatever it may be They were just doing the basic most guys right right there were some guys that were like a next level that were actually Yeah, absolutely but those were the guys Convincing these other dudes it could be done. Yeah, you know what I mean, but then they don't understand the price I mean, I even remember back in the day the B20 swap was just kind of like that budget Not necessarily downgrade not necessarily an upgrade, but like If you're in Tagore blue its engine couldn't find a B18 you just throw a B20 in it everything else would bolt up everything would be good You'd run it. Yeah, I mean but whenever you start trying to swap heads and do that kind of thing That's when they got a little weird. Yeah, I mean I Get it though. You're trying to make do with what you have yeah You know and so the thing about the B series is that it's It's legendary because they consider it for what it is bulletproof. Yeah, you know And I don't know if anybody's ever seen the video. I hope you have of the D series running on water And then nothing, you know, they tried to kill this D series for a solid hour and just could not I remember one point They had the garden hose and the valve cover dude just feeling the thing and it's still just running running so you know Honda's are definitely Well 90s early 2000s Honda's are known for that right they'll they'll run and run and run and these are no different You know it they come of course with the aluminum block and and guys are putting six seven horsepower in these aluminum blocks and just Just moving yeah with it, you know, of course built, but like right right there. They're doing it, you know I had a 92 I think maybe I had it When I knew you a 92 the turbo one. Yeah the SIR yeah to the eG hatch from Japan And this was back in like 2008 or nine and Man is crazy dude like we got 480 horsepower out of that thing on on a stock blog on a 16 yeah and Like the stock B 16 that came in it, you know strapped a turbo on it put injectors. Yeah, you know did some little things like that Basically bolt on stuff right for a dude Dude, yeah, this thing would dash hop from light to light dude like I had to Worked everything down. Oh, yeah man like I couldn't keep tires on that thing. It was it was a wild car and and it loved it Yeah, no turbo as well on E85 just rip and do yeah, so That's one of the things, you know beyond the fact that like you know and this doesn't just go for B series, but Honda's period the That movement back then with the tucking the base The square profile of the B series just looks so good in those bays, right? Like that was like attracted to me. I was like wow like this looks take the timing cover off so you can see the timing Well, yeah, geez All right relax But yeah, and then of course right the power that you could get out of them I never loved the front-wheel drive thing. Yeah, that was the what I felt like was the limiting factor But I guess they just weren't built for what I was thinking I wanted you know like I'm trying to go in a straight line As fast as I can at that point in front-wheel drive I needed some fatties some big old fatties, but then I would have been snapping axles So like you know it it is it is a crazy thing, but I have for sure always love the B series Another quick story The thing that got me into Honda's period was we've talked about it before on the podcast his name is Dave Perry I hope at some point he'll come on to the podcast, but His story is very emotional and I don't think he's ready to you know do that, but Long story short in the middle of his story he ends up getting this JDM and Tiger type R The thing is sick. It's completely mugand out the motors built by mugand The it can't like they had the mugand stripes on it like every part on this car was mugand and this is in 2005 Yeah, like this is right after they stopped making him You know like still a new car still a new car and and this I don't know if it was a mugand demo car I have no clue, but this guy this is my first ride in the right hand drive car I had just graduated high school. It was a summer afterwards. Whatever. Yeah He brings me This thing rips 10,000 rpms and just like is singing Yeah, and like that had that's when I was like dude Honda's are amazing this thing doesn't even have a turbo But in a car like that VTEC feels like that style power band So that really you know that B18 that he had in that car really Change the course of like the type of car. Yeah, that I liked at that point because that NA just raw power the NA B series There's nothing like that sound and yeah, I In my experience, I've never owned one, but I've driven a few friends and dude Whenever they're built and they're revving to 10k and you know, you can see that See the tack wrap all the way around Dude, it's just like and it just makes the craziest roll like intake noise dude and just it pulls yeah, and they they pull and They'd beat a lot of cars in a straight line that you wouldn't really necessarily expect. Yeah, especially back then You know when you're just getting into it. You're like, oh, it's just the Honda. It's not gonna right can't touch a Mustang Probably necessarily, but no, dude, right right no dude. It's actually probably can pull a Mustang pretty hard Yeah, oh, yeah, yeah, you would see that too a lot especially in like the hatchbacks the light hatchbacks Yeah, yeah, oh for sure So it's like you know, and I'm sure you guys even have like a million stories about these type of things right the first time you rode in a built B series and so it's it's pretty crazy because Let's just fast forward right 2024 you still have You still have guys that are B series only yeah, you still have die hard B series fans 30 plus years after the motor debuted, you know, that's like you don't have Whatever came in my 97 Cavalier you probably don't have that many die hard that motor guy You know what I'm saying like that 2.0 Chevy John it's kind of like I mean kind of like the old 350 Chevy That everyone had back in the day. Yeah, you know what I mean? It's kind of like that thing. It's tried and true Yeah, people love it a lot of people have moved on to the next thing You know which in that case it'd be L.S. is in this case it'd probably be K series yeah But that tried and true to still there right you're still making parts. Oh, yeah, yeah, they're still selling parts Yeah, right. No, you're right. There are guys that still want the 350 even today Yeah, you know and there are guys that want the B series and I'm one of the guys I would want to be serious to be honest like I've seen I've seen all of these K series swaps I remember like way back back in 2009 when Bond was swapping a K series into that green eG hatch Yeah, and it was just like it's cool, right? It's like orientated the opposite way. It's like this bigger Different profile motor like yeah, I mean it's sweet, but for me like B series is Yeah, I'm the 350 guy. All right. I'm the guy You know, I'm still running the 350 while you're whipping pass me with a LS right it's understandable, you know, so I figure let's let's talk about you're gonna have to you know You're gonna have to take the the K series yeah, I'll take the K and I'm gonna take the B series and we're just going to spit real quick What our setup would be lightly what our setup would be and why our setup is better Okay, like what not necessarily better than each other's but better than a K series or better than a B Right, so I'm gonna let you go first. Okay, and what would this be going in just like an eK 9 or something like That yeah, okay the car yeah, let's say eK 9 yeah hatch that would be good Yeah, so K series no, it's not going in a Ford or Skyline to chill Well, that's a whole other thing dude. They make real drive swap kits for K 20s or you know K 20 K 24s and I'd never saw that with B series Which yeah, that's just the whole different a whole different thing right? But K 24s. I mean they've been making him since probably O3 I think was the first year O2 or O3 when they started coming in the Accords and There's just so many of them out there and on top of that they can make very very good power without even you know cracking into the bottom end Yeah, like stock bottom end they can for sure they can hold plenty you can slap a turbo kit on that thing As long as you have enough fuel and you're not getting crazy with the tuning dude you can run four or five hundred horsepower all day depending on the fuel So so what would you do on your K series? What's your setup that's going to be the beat? Well, I was also gonna say you could do crazy in a builds as well like they got some crazy head packages. I've seen out there that You know they make Over 300 I believe in a which is kind of insane But I would probably want to do one of those do some crazy high compression in a build with some ITBs and Dude let it rip. I mean, I'm sure of it sound Absolutely insane. Yeah, I bet it would It's cool. So we're both going the same way with this got it Got it. This is not this is not rehearsed Yes, I guess I'm putting toda ITBs Yeah, I'm putting yeah high compression. Yes pistons Crank you name it. We're getting down to the nitty gritty. I'm basically rebuilding this dude's mucin fucking B series because that thing like I never felt NA car like that before and granted. I'm like 18 like all horned up like You know, but and maybe it a lot of it was just the situation, but right. I've always loved The sound of an NA B series just like dude. Oh my gosh. It's like it literally is like music Like you hear that thing ripping around the track and it's just this raw sound that is not like a turbo car at all Right, you know, definitely not like a turbo car, right? Which yeah turbo cars are sweet, but like Yeah, when you can turn 10,000 RPM on a 1.8 or whatever leader motor Yeah, like yeah, you're you're getting close to motorcycle level. Yeah, right realistically, you know, so Yeah, I mean, I don't think there's a better one. I think there's it depends on the application, right? Yeah, how much money you want to spend? I mean, I think at this day and age like dollar for dollar you could make more power reliably just because Just to buy the engine itself. You're spending way less whereas B16 swap nowadays like tons Like a RB 26 prices. Yeah, they're getting close. Yeah, it's freaking crazy. Yeah, it's crazy The man it is wild just how much they disappeared and we didn't even realize it was happening while it's happening Yeah, I mean, I think I'm probably guilty for one of them get scrapped, you know, so yeah, I mean that is tough But I agree 100% today 2024 if you don't got the money and you're not trying to be nostalgic. Yeah, of course like I mean Yeah, even if you splurge for a K20 Like I mean a 2.0 NA is going to stop at 1.8 unless you got some magic tricks Yeah, like there's like you're gonna have to be friggin throwing oil out the back What it should probably would be anyways is a B series, but you know like it did I it's the case series is a Pure motor overall and in that makes sense, you know with time Honda's engineers had to get better, right, you know, not just regulatory wise, but just To kind of step up what they were doing. Right. Stay challenged. Exactly, but still at the end of the day Nothing beats that B series and like an EK engine bay It's nice and clean get the red wrinkle valve cover Very awesome. Yeah, even factory. They look great. You did that's just very hard to beat So I can see both sides of it too. Mm-hmm 100% so we're all for it. We're loving it You know it might shit case series might start coming in Nissan's pretty quick here We might be loving them a little more But yeah, man if you guys have anything like hit us up in the DMs Let us know what you're thinking give us some feedback suggestions Anything just say what's up. We're down to do it Of course you can find us on the socials at our HD to UIS But man, we're loving the B series like K series is the new rage, but B series is a classic and sometimes you just got to be that guy Can't beat it absolutely for episode 113 I'm Bobby. This is Aaron. See ya peace Peace.