Ryan ZumMallen - The Cult Of GT-R - EP.58

Have you ever wondered why the 25 year law ever came into effect? Can you imagine what its like to be invited into HKS Japan and meet with the CEO? What about walking the lot, and peeking into forbidden warehouses at TopRank Japan? Ryan ZumMallen, the author of Cult Of GT-R fills us in on these topics and more! 

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Welcome to the right hand drive guys podcast the show for guys who like right hand drives. We're your host. I'm Bobby This is Aaron. Yeah, yeah, and make sure to follow us on all the socials at RHD G U IS and DM us with any questions you have we're always more than willing to help and check out the merch if you have a chance RHD G U IS dot com We're pretty excited today actually today is our first ever guest in Hopefully one of many for the future, but our first ever who'd we got man? Dude today we got Ryan Zumallan Ryan Zumallan who's this? Yeah, if you don't know he is the author of the book the Cult of GTR the Cult of GTR so Yeah, dude this book is sick like the book is sick. Yeah, when you first brought it up to me I just opened a random page of it and Immediately just read in a little story about First time visiting top rank. Yeah, and from there on I was like holy cow. What else is in this book? So I had to you know read a cover cover. Yeah, day great in dude. I mean to be honest This is probably the first book I've read like since high school That's no, but I think a lot of guys will agree, you know give this another six months And I think a lot of guys will say the same. Yeah, yeah, for real. I mean and it's hard to like you know Really hold my attention throughout a whole book, but I mean this thing I mean, it's more than just GTRs really. I mean he throws in some Japanese history. Yeah Japanese American history like He throws in little excerpts about other cars and other little tidbits about yeah just random loss stuff and yeah, there really is a pretty big spread and Yeah, I think we what you're saying about holding attention like Just these stories relate to us in a lot of car guys so much that it would almost be hard not to hold your attention Right with the way that he tells this story. Yeah, and overall it's just a great book and whether you know If you're just into JDM cars or do just cars in general This is a book that would probably hold your attention. Yeah, if you have any I don't know any I don't know what you say question about why the GTR is This thing that it is yeah read the book and it tells a very good story about this car by the end of it You almost feel not like a GTR know it all but you absolutely feel more educated and and have maybe even the slightest bit more respect for the cars knowing How much they've been through yeah, I'm gonna present so we do we had actually tried this and We had some bad audio out we couldn't tell if it was like our Wi-Fi or if it was it was Ryan's mic But we ended up doing it again, and so you'll kind of notice our background is a little different We had to go to one of our offices in order to make sure that we had perfect Wi-Fi and everything was gonna work So we switched up the location for a bit, but what do you say we get into it? Yeah, let's do it. All right Ryan Zumolin All right, and welcome back today we got a special guest. I am super excited to introduce Ryan Zumolin the author of one of my favorite books And I'm not just saying that the cult of GTR. Hey Ryan, how you doing today? I'm doing well, man. Thank you very much for having me So for those that don't really know who you are Give us a just a little breakdown of who you are. How'd you get into this position and and Yeah, let's fill them in Sure, I've been an automotive journalist for over 10 years now Working at smaller websites mostly, but I was recently at Edmonds for a few years and have written some pretty big pieces for major outlets Don't freelance for road and track Had big pieces in the verge and then a few years ago I started a book publishing company just to give myself a little bit more control over the types of stories that I wanted to go after and Give myself a chance to really sink my teeth into some topics that I wanted to chase and so Put my first book out in 2019. That's called slow car fast and it's on Millennial car culture and how our tastes and trends are changing car culture as we know it I should probably update it with the Gen Z version now at this point They're taking over but And then my most recent project is cult of GTR as you mentioned and the story of the Skyline GTR has always been one that fascinated me Just hearing like you know bits and pieces of the story here and there and there's so much rumor and there's so much wild speculation about You know how things really went down so I wanted to try my best to see what I could You know take those rumors and see what I could prove and verify and then put it all in one place To give the diehards something To really enjoy and hopefully give them some new information But also introduce this story in this phenomenon to people who might not be aware of it at all because The Skyline Mystique is still Not widely known because the car just hasn't been here, right? So yeah, that was the that was the goal to try to capture some of the magic that makes this car in this culture special Yeah, I mean and I was definitely 100% one of those people even though I I own GTRs to Figure out and do the research of you know is this rumor true or false? Like did this really actually happen? You know why did MotorX actually shut down? You know some of these things and and it's pretty diluted on the internet You know whether it's on YouTube or Google or whatever and it's really hard to decipher What is actual rumor or what is fact and by reading your book It really did clear a lot of that up and and I had and I know Aaron said the same thing I had multiple moments where I was like no shit. That's actually what happened like that's wild and and I really think this will be a great tool with all of these You know Beyond these people but with all of these new owners that are about to actually take possession of the car I feel like this book will be an asset and as you said to truly understand What this car has been through you know since it came out Um yeah, that was that was definitely the goal. So I'm glad you had that experience because I was definitely looking for that oh shit moment Yeah, yeah, and it's really cool because Where some books will tell you a story and then go on to the next story. I really appreciate how This book will start to tell you a story and then like peak that interest and then come into the next cool story Before fully finishing the last one. So you're almost like intertwined with multiple stories at once and you don't want to stop Because you know the next part of that other story is coming. I really think that that was a Good strategy on your behalf Well, I appreciate that and I mean that's how it happened in real time too right like all this stuff was happening I mean during the 90s and early 2000s All the stuff was happening simultaneously, you know, Nissan is still producing the car It's got this incredible legendary street racing mystique in Japan In the us people are scrambling to get them here legally and illegally The laws being enforced sometimes in in In different ways Depending on which jurisdiction is handling it. So all these things are happening all at once And so I kind of wanted to create that impression That it's all spiraling very quickly right no, and I for sure got that out of it like I felt like I was in it almost Like oh no, what's gonna happen with hero is he gonna keep spending his money on these weirdo bars or what? You know like that's genuinely how I felt like during the book That's no man. I'm glad So I know Aaron had a question. Yeah, yeah, so I gotta ask you know Why the GTR you know, it's just a Nissan right? Why the GTR over a car that you know has status Let's say like a Porsche 911 or you know something that has history as well like why the GTR Yeah, the number of times that I got that question over the course of the Of the research was pretty was pretty astounding um Yeah, a lot of people really do view it as just a 30 year old Nissan Yeah And so that that proved to me. I thought that there was an opportunity to um You know introduce this Mystique to people this phenomenon who Who just aren't aware of it at all and know know this kind of line as a regular sedan or overhyped or Just a big motor or you know any number of misconceptions and so There there is definitely something unique and special about the GTR um and for me a lot of it has to do with how important that car is to Japan and its people You know, it really does represent something more and that is ultimately why they kept sales almost completely to Japan to its domestic market um You know, this was this was a car designed specifically for the Japanese people um By really the most Japanese car company, you know Nissan the two words that they combined to make the word Nissan mean Japanese and industry Like this this company and it's it's founder was was directly influenced um By wanting to build a car company that could compete with uh Americans and um Kind of took blueprints that he learned from American industry in his studies and Applied them in order to build a Japanese company that was just as strong as as all the others in the world and um The GTR is the ultimate expression of what Nissan Um tries to be and tries to accomplish and so i mean just that fact right there Just how important it is to the people um, I think makes it special and what they were able to accomplish is like true uh technological breakthroughs in terms of the full-wheel drive system the rear-steer system and then obviously the RB26 motor um and to have performance that would blow away cars twice its price or more You know that that really really is special and then on top of that all the success in motorsports and uh it became a phenomenon in video games and and films and um created this This whirlwind Around it that exceeded anything anyone at Nissan ever expected But I think combine all that stuff and uh it it it truly is something uh Different from other car stories out there and there are a lot of cars with great stories um And litigious backgrounds and scandal and and all of that right um But yeah, all of that combined um Uh makes the GTR pretty special and also it's uh the people associated with it like the people who Really really care about that car um, you know, they're they're diehards like other cars have but they're also very welcoming and um very down to earth You know when you get into the realm of Uh high-end sports car enthusiasts. It's not always a very uh, you know uh welcoming Incorporating place. Yeah, and uh Yeah, GTR people in my experience have definitely been oh you're interested in the thing. I'm interested Let me tell you everything there is to know um and that that certainly helped a lot. Yeah, I can I can attest to that for sure It's like once like they accept you in like they're they're willing to almost do anything for you And they're willing to bring you along on whatever they're doing um, you know, I've I've been a part of quite a few different car communities in my let's just say car career so far and You know, you would think the GTR community would be more snobby or standoffish and it's honestly the exact opposite and I feel like I've been More welcomed through that community than I have You know the communities that maybe people would see below that community, you know, they've been It harder to like kind of get accepted in than than the GTR community So I can agree like and I think that boils down to the true passion for the car and the fact that we've all been waiting for it over here for so long That the anticipation has just created just yeah this this whole different attitude about it Um, so what we really wanted to do uh because we we really did enjoy the book and So we wanted to ask you a few questions that would maybe just lead you into a story or two that um are related to the book to kind of give some of our listeners a little preview and and hopefully You know give them the desire to go grab the book um, so The the question that I had because I know so few people have had this opportunity and you know to some it made just You know seem trivial, but I want to know what it was like having Masha take you through the backside of pdi Where not many people have gone, but I would guarantee almost people would pay to take tours. What what was that like for you? Yeah to to come from a place in the US where you know there's At this and and I visited about a year ago. So you know our 34 gcrs weren't coming into the country yet um and to come from a place where There's maybe a handful of our 34 gcrs and then go to visit a place where they're literally storing them by the dozens Uh, you know, there were over There's more than 50 r 34 gcrs in that warehouse um, and so to have that door open up and you walk into it and it's uh Uh, it's it's it's overwhelming to see that many uh of this Highly coveted model all together and more than that um To know Just how many of them are waiting to come to the US so those cut for those who might not know those cars at the top ring facility in Japan are already bought and paid for By Outside customers in other countries. So they're just sitting there waiting to become legal to import Um, and to me that illustrated the whole story right there right like this car is so desirable that people will buy it in another country and keep it in another country and pay rent on it For the privilege of being able to pay to import it a year or two years or three years down the line sometimes five or six years I know some of these guys it's been a hot minute Let's say you bought it. Sure. Yeah Yeah, some of the cars in there I've I've been there six or seven years um So yeah, and I I figured if I could explain The significance of that warehouse and those cars then I thought that that was the whole book Um, and as soon as I as soon as I walked in um, I knew you know, this was gonna be good um, and the top rank guys are all great. Masha is you know fantastic. Just a super warm um Guy that's just fun to be around and listen to all his whole his stories, you know, his family has an R34 GTR that they bought new uh, and he says he'll never sell and uh, I don't blame him um So yeah, it was just you know, it's just different to being in Japan as you guys know and experience the car there on its home turf um, it's uh I think for a lot of people in the community that's what it's all about And so I just I just tried to soak that in Yeah, I can't blame me. Masha is uh, quite the character to say the least um, definitely always entertaining when he is around um Quick little story about him when we were at there at the Fuji Track Day um GTR magazine wanted to feature me in my car and I don't speak Japanese like that and so Masha was my translator And I would answer with a simple two or three, you know word answer and he would just go in and I could just tell you know He was fluffing it up for me with with all these um, you know, special little words that he was using And so I could tell right there he was a good guy because he wasn't gonna let me go out with just such a short little interview You know what I mean um So I know Aaron Aaron had a good question um about the book as well. Go ahead man. Yeah, yeah So HKS is one of those tuners it, you know, if you think about JDM cars you immediately think HKS right They're right on the right on the foot of Fuji. They're one of those classic shops, right Tell us what it was like uh You know meeting Ms. Gucci son and getting the full HKS tour and seeing all their cars their warehouses all that what was that like? Yeah, another great experience um And uh, you know as you mentioned HKS was built at the foot of Mount Fuji and so you park at the Parking lot kind of at the bottom of the hill and then as you walk to their office buildings you're walking up Up this incline and it's pointed straight at the mountain That's so as you're as you're walking from building to building around the the headquarters Uh, you know, you're constantly in the shadow of Mount Fuji, which is just like an incredible arena to be Building, you know, one of the world's great aftermarket tuning companies um And uh, yeah, it's it's special you can feel it. It's another one of those things that's like oh this could this could only be in Japan um and um You know, it's it's interesting Where HKS is at currently, you know, they have such an incredible reputation and were you know true pioneers in the areas of tuning in the aftermarket um, I think I'm pretty sure they produced the first ever bolt on turbo kit in the 70s Swiled and look at where that is now um and really dominated the A lot of the 80s and 90s too and helped fuel that passion and that culture and that enthusiasm by figuring out how to unlock cars like the GTR and really You know get them to their full potential, which is the whole point, you know, like these cars stock You know, they say 276 horsepower because of the federal mandate, but um, you know They're they're fun to drive stock, but they're magic The magic that turns these cars into what they've become is when you upgrade them Um and HKS played a major major role in that Now where they are now is a little more complicated because there are so many competitors in the area and you know They are not necessarily a leader anymore, you know, there are lots of lots of companies that are trying to make a name and are really innovating And HKS is kind of sticking to their tried and true method of like um Moderate increases, you know smart efficiency In some areas, you know, they were stressing fuel economy to me and I was like, I don't know if that's going to play well in the US like Like that's just not what where people's priorities are, but you know, they are they they have their ways and um It's fascinating to see how they're trying to update that with like modern materials a lot of use of carbon fiber a lot of really advanced machine processes um But you know they have that name and it comes with a price, but that name means something to people and so with With the GTR skyline GTR market Expanding here in the US. I think they will definitely play a role um And a significant one. I just think they're they're up against a lot more competition than they have been in the past um and it'll be interesting to see how they navigate that and try to try to stay at that But as you mentioned meeting um Mizuguchi-san Who's now the chief executive of the company and remember this is a giant company like this is not it This is not your small tuning shop, you know in downtown Tokyo with like a one one bay door um This is a publicly traded company on Japanese stock exchanges, you know, they have major government contracts They have all types of applications. They do power sports, you know, jetskis and stuff like that. They do all kinds of stuff But and this is the man at the head of it who built his career at least in part on the GTR You know, he was head of the t-002 project, which is a record setting our 33 GTR back in the day um and and still talks very fondly about that But it was it was really wonderful to meet with him his office is stunning and there are Or orchids everywhere kind of like lining the inside of his office um and You know we sat down at a table when he had I think six or seven executives next to him So that was a bit intimidating, but a very a very sweet guy and very insightful you could tell but but yet to um We spoke a lot about history The the history of hks forming and it's it's mission to You know provide consumers with um Excitement and that's that's still what they're going for and um, you know to hear it from From them You know in their office at the base amount Fuji surrounded by orchids It was uh, it was again just one of those experiences um that I'll cherish for a long time. Yeah, that's got to be burned in your brain Just you know walking in there initially and having everybody sit around the table I can only imagine my knees would be chattering and I it would just be kind of one of those like you got to settle in type things because Of course we as enthusiasts have been looking up to What this man has been doing and the company has been doing for so long That you know even though he doesn't consider himself any sort of celebrity in our eyes, right? He's the man that's given us so much inspiration and opportunity. So I could only imagine and it it's really crazy to me that As you say they're a huge company. They have things like government contracts Usually when somebody gets into government contracting all of that little stuff goes to the wayside and and that's really one of the things for hks that That is awesome still is that like you said there's you know the skyline markets coming into the us They have three guys right dedicated to rb still a 25 30-year-old motor, you know or an older and they still have guys dedicated to it that to me That's like pretty wild and show some dedication correct. Yeah, and um the GTR is still a major major part of their business Which is which is interesting because it's a pretty relatively low volume, you know Enthusiasm niche sports car, but um it's the It's tied with the Toyota 86 in terms of their total sales For first among all all cars on the market. So um, you know the Yeah, the cars that they sell they make the most revenue off of I'm the entire market is GTR and 86 Um, two cars that are on completely different opposite ends of the spectrum and that's the new 86 right I think I think they're counting I'm yeah like within the last 10 years. Oh, yeah, but Which yeah, which is crazy to think that a 30-year-old car is tying in accessory sales to Right, you know, whatever eight or nine-year-old car that that definitely speaks volumes just about those GTR enthusiasts as we talk about Yeah, and I think they're counting R35 also, but but yeah, yeah, they entire lineage. Yeah pretty impressive So you know You'd like I can't even imagine I wouldn't know but the process to create a book especially to this level I can only imagine is A long process that is tedious and sometimes feels directionless and you know, I can only imagine like a your job is definitely one that takes a lot of focus and so what I was curious about was What was the most interesting or intriguing knowledge that you gained during this book process because as you said You know, you didn't know all this before you started the book. So what would you say was that you know One kind of story or or bit of knowledge that you that just kind of blew you away? I think understanding more about the the history of Japan and Japanese and US relations and how those those things really do influence You know decisions that are made today still There was so much that I didn't know about japanese history that I feel like You know should be better understood and maybe I'm just speaking for myself, but um, you know the fact that Japan was a closed-off Culture for centuries until the 1850s when the US essentially barged in to Tokyo Bay and said you're going to trade with us now Because we just brought in our four biggest warships and pointed them at your coast And you're going to open up your country for the first time in hundreds of years and trade with us um and I'm oversimplifying it a little bit But you know that is something that is not regularly taught in US schools But it is still very much uh Emphasized in Japanese schools today You know, that is a very important watershed moment for them as a culture Um, and here we just aren't really aware of it But that kind of set in motion A long and complicated history of relation between our two countries and in a lot of ways it produced unintended consequences like you know us Kind of forcing them to adopt more modern Society led to Japan becoming the second largest economy in the world at one point With a with a market cap that exceeded the US's at one point which is astonishing um and And not to mention you know World War II and you know us being on opposite sides and after the war ended The US occupied Japan for years and they went through Uh a brutal brutal period of reconstruction. They had a phrase Um at that time because there was there was hunger starvation, you know real Real hardship and their phrase was endure the unendurable Which is Unthinkable to but it was kind of a rallying cry a call to arms for them to collectively get through this period together And you know conditions that were like they say almost unendurable um and and i think that speaks to a cohesiveness in their society That uh That is really unique and special and As they tried to build up from that The role of their car companies uh was Enormous and so there is so much pride in a company like Nissan same with Toyota Honda and and and other similar ones, but there is so much pride in the products that that they produce and Trying to compete on a world stage and prove themselves as You know equal or better to what everyone else is putting out um and so understanding that that is the Uh Genesis for where a car like the Skyline GTR comes from i think was Crucial to to my understanding of of what makes it special Yeah, that makes sense and and really that is something During our first trip to Japan that we really realized and and maybe just being on like the um fan of the culture side over here before actually experiencing it The level of pride that they have for What they do period whether it's the guy sweeping the sidewalk or yeah the guy building a drift car to go compete You know in D1 or whatever they all have this same amount of like intense pride in what they do and it really shows like we have a hard time finding Cars that don't impress us in one way or another in the sense of how much pride and like work they put into it They don't really do anything Half-ass so to speak and that really stood out to us too For sure and I can't remember the word Albo taught it to us multiple times but they have a specific word for What for their pride and the way that they do things over there that's how Like into it and how focused on it they are is that they have a word just for pretty much not half-assing Their stuff and so I agree I feel like that pride that was developed through those hardships has really you know Shined during some of these times when they could have just kept doing anything mediocre, but they chose not to um So lastly we'd love to hear a little bit about the situation that created um You know The kind of the end of motor x but really the beginning of the 25-year rule I know you have a little insight on that Yeah, sure so the 25-year importing rule um I'm I'm sure most people listening to this uh are aware of that but um you know it hasn't been around forever It was instituted in the late 80s um and in that period up to that automakers were getting concerned that it was cheaper for us consumers to buy Cars abroad And bring them in to the country rather than buying them through US dealerships the strength of the dollar made our economy You know favorable to that kind of stuff. So they were essentially Stealing sales away from US dealerships. So Auto companies particularly Mercedes, but it wasn't just them They got several others involved and to make it like a group effort tried to institute a law to prevent that from happening and what they ultimately came up with was uh a rule that any car not specifically marketed for sale in the US Had to wait 25 years before it could be brought in Now they tried to push a lot like that through for years like almost a decade and just weren't weren't getting much traction That people didn't really see a lot of sympathy for the group Up companies that included Mercedes BMW and Porsche They were kind of like well, you know tough shit um but what ultimately changed it Um was when they were able to make it a safety issue and that was based on a largely on a single episode when an imported gray market Mercedes Carried off the road and crashed in northern California and um a a 26 year old woman was killed So she was riding passenger her fiancee was driving her fiancee have been drinking Like throughout the day and would later fail a breathalyzer test or I should say a um A legal limit test But in the ensuing trial His attorney was able to convince the jury that uh His inebriation had little or nothing to do with the accident Instead the fact that the Mercedes was brought into the country and then converted by a shop that he said failed to do Appropriate work led to a breaking failure and that's what caused the crash so ultimately the owner of that car was acquitted um and you know he's been he's been free ever since um and Mercedes and other car companies were able to point to that case and say see these cars are not safe Uh, they have been tampered with by conversion shops. So they were in an awkward position right because they couldn't say Um Mercedes isn't safe Of course not It enabled that but it enabled them to say that conversion shop that you have to take your car to when you bring it into the country their shady and you know, they do shoddy work and it could lead to tragedy and uh the Defense attorney in that case literally pointed to each person on the jury and said it could have been you it could have been you it could have been you and You know that resonated with them. So um he was acquitted that gave the car companies the ammunition they needed to You know paint this as a safety issue and that ultimately created the political will to get the the law passed in 1988 um But yeah that I I didn't know that um I had to go back into uh records and reporting uh that were done during the time and At the time they didn't realize you know that it would lead to something like that They were just reporting on you know a trial of a car crash and uh and the tragic death of a of a young woman um But yeah again unintended consequences and and now here we are Yeah, and that is crazy, you know, I had always of course heard you know Mercedes Mercedes lobby to To have that put in because of as you said the Increased gray market sales and the decreased localized sales But to know that what actually set it off Was that event in one single event even though I I know there was like a few more where they kind of Blamed it that were maybe less tragic, but I did not realize that They pretty much just pinned the shops which I mean we all know some of these specialty shops do cut corners and and maybe that was the case But yeah, I had never realized that at all um So I mean these are this is just a few tidbits of the expansive knowledge that you can find in the book um And hopefully some of our listeners have kind of realized like oh okay, this isn't just a fact book like this is kind of a You know collaboration of stories that really lead up to today almost yeah um, and so let us know so Where can we find this book where like if if our listeners want need to go get a copy right now They're not gonna be able to get a a wangana edition. I'm gonna tell them that Because those are sold out and I was lucky enough to get mine But there's still plenty of the white cover books, right? Correct and uh the story is the same in both versions so you're not missing out on the story But you can find the book at my publishing website. It's corara books.com.ca.r.r.r.a Books But also the book is sold widely so if you have a favorite you know online retailer um, you can find it on on most book marketplaces and uh, you know If you request it at your library libraries are always looking for New titles to stock so um oftentimes if you request it they'll they'll bring it in there If you'd like to do it that way too Wow, yeah, no, that's a that's a great point. No, of course We always recommend getting it on your website and skipping uh, you know The middleman and that and that directly supports you which we're all about um and shout out one more time it was slow car fast is the first book, right Correct. Yeah, that's that's the next one on my list. I'm not just saying that this one got me got me hooked But I can't go too heavy on books, you know but So we definitely it is it is and and I don't like to start something and I don't finish so it really takes me Something but this this was actually really fast to finish because it really does get you hooked in the sense of what's the next story, you know How did these people in Florida end up getting all these cars and get blacklisted and I need to know and you know I want to know how hero messed this up, you know and and so these different stories really kept me engaged and and that was why You know when when we were discussing well, who do we have on the podcast first for our first guest It was almost a no-brainer to have Ryan on because of How hooked the book got me, you know his description of this are really going to be engaging and and so we appreciate you being on here today for sure Likewise, man, and thank you guys for for this opportunity and for all you do for the culture All right, buddy until next time. Thank you very much. Have a great day All right guys take care Wow that was crazy this guy Can you just imagine how much research and verification and just traveling and meeting people that this guy did for this one single book? Yeah Dude since saying must have been Must have been quite a trip, right? Yeah, so I mean the process of writing a book already is just like kind of wild but Like a book like this where it's getting like Kind of picked over with a fine toothed comb because GTR owners Don't want missing information about the car out there and man all I've seen is approval approval approval for this book from GTR owners that I know from California to Japan. Yeah, yeah I mean dude read the book and I guarantee you you're gonna learn something. Yeah, you're gonna You're definitely gonna learn at least a thing or two. Yeah, I totally And I know you know find him on Instagram again. He gave us The key to where to find the books try to buy it directly through him that's going to give him more of the end dollar Which helps him produce more books? Yeah And yeah, if you have any questions Ask the man. He's super cool. Yeah, 100% check out his other books as well. Yeah, yeah I'm planning on doing it. Yeah, and he I did notice he does a lot of automotive articles for a lot of different websites now that I've been following him and whatnot So you've probably read something of his new and you and realize it probably yeah, absolutely All right, so this is episode 58 our first guest Ryan Zumullen the author of the cult of GTR and until next time I'm Bobby, this is Aaron. See ya, peace!